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Bradley Alias I vs Sebenza Large Regular
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Alright. I finally obtained both a Bradley Alias I and a Sebenza Large Regular. The Sebenza, made by Chris Reeve Knives, is regarded by many as the holy grail of folders. It is known for fanatical fit and finish, strength, rigidity of lock up, and quality. The Alias I is produced by Benchmade to the specifications of Bradley Cutlery Co. The story goes that the Elkhart, Indiana based company was founded from pure frustration by a knife distributor annoyed about the continual backorder status of Chris Reeve Sebenza knives. Not having inventory to offer his customers, the owner, (Brad) of Bradley Cutlery decided that he could build a 100% American made Sebenza equivalent using the same materials, but make the knives readily available and a lot less expensive. So, how do they stack up? Here is a link to some great photographs, far beyond what I can take. I suggest you open this link in a second window while reading this review. http://www.messerforum.net/showthread.php?t=36011 I am going to start with blade shape. Both blades are S30V from Crucible. Chris Reeve Knives helped develop S30V and bring it to market. I prefer the blade shape of the Alias. The Alias is a modified drop point, with the thickest part of the blade being about 20% of the way from the top. Almost the entire top of the blade is a false edge. It is what I consider to be saber ground. A lot like flat ground, but not all the way up. The Sebenza is a clip point with a very thick spine at the top of the blade. This spine is crowned on top and is one of the hallmarks of a Sebenza. Below the spine, the blade is hollow ground, thus leaving the bulk of the blade thinner than the Alias. I find that the dramatic increase from the hollow grind to the spine makes slicing difficult with the Sebenza. If you are cutting an orange or cheese the sudden thickening drags through the cut and causes resistance. The saber grind of the Alias is more progressive and slices better. As to which blade is stronger, it is very hard to say. The Sebenza has the thick spine, but the Alias is thicker through more of the blade. The Alias arrived out-of-the-box MUCH sharper than the Sebenza. I have no data on edge holding or resharpening as both knives are new. Next, thumbstud. About a tie, though both are poor. Eack knife has a pointy thumbstud that does not afford much lateral purchase. You have to really press your thumb down into it causing the tip to dig into your thumb. I would also like to see double thumbstuds for each side. Although I am right handed, there are times I want to open the knife left handed. Handle. The Sebenza starts off looking like it has a great advantage in the handle area. The titanium slabs on the Sebenza are dramatically thicker than on the Alias; perhaps up to 50% thicker. The thicker slabs, one would assume, are stronger than the thinner ones. The Sebenza uses one back spacer in addition to the stop pin, where the Alias uses two back spacers in addition to the stop pin. Both handles are incredibly rigid and far beyond my strength to cause flex in. The Sebenza handle is very square, with rough cutouts near the front. Also, when holding the Sebenza I feel that the blade is pointing upwards. One may recall the downward swoop of the AFCK. The Sebenza gives the opposite sensation, that the blade is higher than where you want it to be in relation to hand position. The shape of the Alias' handle is MUCH better than the Sebenza's. It has a downward curve on the top of the handle, and more curves in the bottom part. In addition it has a thumb cutout in the titanium slab, and does not have the rough ridges of the Sebenza. The blade positioning was much more neutral than in the Sebenza. The Alias did not exhibit the skyward pointing sensation of the Sebenza. To test this sensation of pointing skywards I place the bottom of the handle of each knife along a staight edge. I positioned each knife's handle so that the bottom most points of both the front and back of the handle touched the straight edge. With the knives thus positioned the Alias' cutting edge was slightly below the straight edge. The Sebenza's cutting edge was about 3/4 the width of a standard pencil above the straight edge. Opening. The Sebenza opens with a consistent feel through the entire range of motion. The lock bar engages with a metallic snip. The Alias has much more variation in the opening motion. There is greater resistance to get the blade started moving, then a medium pressure, and in about the last 1/4 of the opening the blade picks up a great deal of speed and snaps open as though it were assisted in some manner. It opens with a clack, much louder than in the Sebenza. I have determined this feeling of snapping open is caused by a small ball, almost like a bearing, placed on the inside of the lock bar of the Alias. The Sebenza has no such ball. The sound and feeling of the Alias' lockup is more satisfying than in the Sebenza, but this is not to be confused with lockup strength. Framelocks have one quirk associated with opening. When holding the handle in your right hand your fingers naturally rest on the lockbar. Too much finger pressure on the lockbar can actually keep the knife from opening. Push with all your might on the thumbstud, but if you are pressuring the lockbar you cannot open the knife. The Alias is much more susceptible to this quirk, probably owing to the thinner handle slabs and the aforementioned ball placed inside the lockbar slab. Lockup. Both knives lockup with exceptional rigidity. Moving the blades side to side in the locked position showed little to no blade play in either knife. In the Alias it seemed I was able to induce the tiniest hint of flex. The Sebenza was rock solid and felt like a fixed blade. This is one of the hallmarks of the knife, and a reason it is famous. This is not to say the Alias was not rigid, it was very rigid, but I have to give the advantage to the Sebenza. The Sebenza's blade is set into the handle much deeper than is the Alias' blade. Look at where the stop pins are. The Sebenza's is set roughly 2.5 times further back. It is my belief that this great setback on the Sebenza is the key to its fantastic lockup and rigidity. The Sebenza also uses larger phosphor bronze bushings than does the Alias. Another area the Sebenza distinguishes itself in is the lockbar contact point with the tang of the blade. On the Alias the contact point of the lockbar is rounded, producing a relatively small contact patch. On the Sebenza the lockbar contact point is flat, producing a much larger contact patch. This also factors into the rigidity of the lockup. Releasing the lockbar on either knife was of equal ease, although the Sebenza did offer easier access due to a larger cutout. However, this larger cutout led to decreased comfort while using the knife. Between the two I preferred the Alias' grip comfort over the ease of access on the Sebenza. Other details. The clip on the Sebenza is made of titanium, where the Alias' clip appears to be of stainless steel. The Sebenza's attachment point is countersunk whereas the Alias' clip is screwed right onto the handle. The Sebenza's clip is a clever touch, giving the advantage of making the clip less obvious to the hand when held. The Sebenza is tip up while the Alias is drilled for either tip up or tip down carry. It arrived from the factory in tip down configuration. Overall style. To my eyes the Alias is more attractive. The Sebenza has a certain "almost homemade" style to it. This of course reveals its semi-custom status and may appeal to some. The Alias looks like a more thoroughly integrated design. The jimping on the top of the Sebenza blade is more finished than in the Alias. On the Sebenza the jimping is rounded and almost invisible when seen from the side. On the Alias the jimping is as subtle as a saw blade. So which is the better knife? A very difficult question indeed. The Sebenza has the legendary name and will strike awe in the hearts of knowledgeable knife lovers everywhere. It will retain much of its value, though of course it has a higher price in the beginning. The Alias has a more comfortable handle and is more affordable. To the casual user both knives will be impressive, and few would ever suspect the price tags they command. The Sebenza does exhibit some fit and finish advantages, namely in the blade crowning, stop pin set back, blade jimping, and lock bar contact point, but these are aspects that are not readily apparent. It is only with careful study that these details reveal themselves. Do they actually produce any real world benefit? I do not have an answer to that question. My choice is the Bradley Alias I. Its handle is much more comfortable. The Sebenza also has that awkward skyward pointing blade that throws off my perception. The blade just does not land where I expect it to. I have to bend my wrist downward to make contact with the object to be cut. Because of the well designed handle and the strong value proposition I prefer the Alias. ---------------------------------- "It takes more intelligence to make the complex simple, than to make the simple complex." Knife Rights Charter Member #204 705BT-04, 710HS, 552M2 Ritter Grip, 710HS Pre-Production, 805 TSEK, 800HS AFCK, 10400 Pika, 551 Griptilian, 710D2, 10750 Vex, 805S TSEK Pre-Production, 550BKSN Griptilian, Bradley Alias I, 806-701 AFCK, 805S TSEK Prototype, 732BK ARES, 730CFD2 ARES, 805HSSR TSEK, 10402 Pika II, 140HSSR Nimravus, 940BK, 910HS, 730CFHS, 723SBKD2-701, 710-801 | ||
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| "Non nobis Domine" |
Thanks James, good review. I go with the Alias, having owned one it was a great knife. 350, 520, 525, 525BK-1101, 530, 580-1102, 580 Proto, 583-1, 585-1, 710-1, 710-2, 710D2, 710HS, 722, 732, 740, 740 Proto, 741, 745, 746, 746-1201, 750, 790, 800, 800HS, 805-1101, 812, 830, 831, 835HS, 840, 845, 890, 905, 907D2, 910, 910SCG, 912D2, 913D2, 12400 Proto, 12410, 14205, 14210, 40022-100. Charter Member #7 - Lum Lunatics. Boomerangs 'n Butterflies: An Osborne Alliance | Member #585 | |||
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| "Klaatu bereda nicto" |
Thanks James. While I have never bought a Sebenza, your points are very close to what I observed. I prefer the tip-up carry, although I know many other forum members prefer tip-down. One other point that was not mentioned that goes in favor of Sebenzas is that they are offered in a left-handed version. Short of bring out an Axis version, the only real thing that I would wish for Bradleys would be a lefty. Oh, and M4 --------------------------Do Not Write Below This Line-------------------------- Read The Patriot It's Right -- It's Free http://PatriotPost.US/subscribe/ Allen Elishewitz Preservation Society Associate Member Boomerangs 'n Butterflies: An Osborne Alliance | Member #013 Kniferights.org Charter Member #169 551S, 600, 705, 705Ss, 705CFBC1HS, 705-401, 707D2-600, 710D2, 710HSs, 771, 800S, 800S-LH, 812S, 812S-LH, 814T, 910-LH, 910HSSR, 940, 943, 960BK-801, 970S, 970S-LH, 975S, 975S-LH, 12800BK-801, Bradley Alias I & II (They count, don't they?) Did I ever tell ya how much I like Benchmades? | |||
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"I WANT THAT KNIFE " |
Good post,the sebenza is way over priced.................. <--------------------<<<< >>>>--------------------> DO NOT TRUST YOUR LIFE TO A POS CHARTER MEMBER #1 LUM LUNATICS | |||
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| "Non nobis Domine" |
Yes it is. 300+ Smackers will buy a lot of knife while the Alias is around $200 with a superior blade shape (IMO.) Why bother? 350, 520, 525, 525BK-1101, 530, 580-1102, 580 Proto, 583-1, 585-1, 710-1, 710-2, 710D2, 710HS, 722, 732, 740, 740 Proto, 741, 745, 746, 746-1201, 750, 790, 800, 800HS, 805-1101, 812, 830, 831, 835HS, 840, 845, 890, 905, 907D2, 910, 910SCG, 912D2, 913D2, 12400 Proto, 12410, 14205, 14210, 40022-100. Charter Member #7 - Lum Lunatics. Boomerangs 'n Butterflies: An Osborne Alliance | Member #585 | |||
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Forumite |
i, personally, prefer the hollow ground blade of the sebenza but really wish for a steel other than s30v. whenever people start knocking the sebenza for being overpriced i like to share this post by Sal Glesser on bladeforums: ------------------------------------------------ More profit is usually associated with higher price. That's normal. Profit is usually a percentage of sales price. To think that a high priced auto should garner the same proft as a low priced auto is not in accord with business. It might be the same percentage, but being more expensive, it will be more profit. Unless you are a manufacturer, familiar with close tolerance manufacturing of heat treated steel & Titanium parts, you are not likely to be able to see all of the differences between one of Chris' knives and others. For example; CRK keeps 0.0005 tolerance on surface grinding. That's one sixth the thickness of a hair. Do you have the knowledge and equipment to discover that tolerance? In the end, it's all about trust. CRK took many years to build and maintain their repuation. Built with consistent focus. Even those trying to make a "cheaper" version must "leave out processes" or "soften their tolerance", or they will cost as much. Rarely do you pay for the "name". That's a bull**** sales pitch made up by the ignorant claiming to offer the same for less. Money valuation between countries might offer a "deal" for a while until the money value balances, but all in all, you will get what you pay for. ---===@===--- there exists no difference between gods and men. one blends softly casual into the other. | |||
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| "Steel Snob M-4" |
VERY WELL SAID .........TRUTH -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Contempt Prior to Investigation - Dont knock it till you,ve tried it. Lum Lunatic #8 .......... "The Society for the Preservation of The AFCK" Boomerangs 'n Butterflies: An Osborne Alliance #8 | |||
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"CAPTAIN OF THE LUM LUNATICS!"![]() |
Just got my Alias I. I have the G-10 version so not to be compared to the Sebbie. But all I have to say is WOW!!! This is a light little booger that handles like an AO knife. This is one great knife. Definately missed out until now. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lunatics I salute thee!! http://i248.photobucket.com/al.../M2HSSR/bdd5b559.jpg Boomerangs 'n Butterflies: An Osborne Alliance | Member #22 | |||
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"I WANT THAT KNIFE " |
lol,i am here not to insult but compare the skirmish with itz ti handles and price to the sebenza,or the rukus for the build of the sebenza half price or less ,to the $400 to above price...This message has been edited. Last edited by: THE PUNISHER, <--------------------<<<< >>>>--------------------> DO NOT TRUST YOUR LIFE TO A POS CHARTER MEMBER #1 LUM LUNATICS | |||
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| "Non nobis Domine" |
Opinions are always valid. For me the plain of it is I buy Benchmades. Both Alias and Sebbies are great knives. Maybe one day I'll spring for one of the Sebbies, or better yet get a used one, just to see for myself. Topic wise, I don't think there have been more postings and PM's sent back and forth on various forums than those about these two knives. If nothing else, it's great publicity. 350, 520, 525, 525BK-1101, 530, 580-1102, 580 Proto, 583-1, 585-1, 710-1, 710-2, 710D2, 710HS, 722, 732, 740, 740 Proto, 741, 745, 746, 746-1201, 750, 790, 800, 800HS, 805-1101, 812, 830, 831, 835HS, 840, 845, 890, 905, 907D2, 910, 910SCG, 912D2, 913D2, 12400 Proto, 12410, 14205, 14210, 40022-100. Charter Member #7 - Lum Lunatics. Boomerangs 'n Butterflies: An Osborne Alliance | Member #585 | |||
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Bradley Alias I vs Sebenza Large Regular
